VS Saxton Hale Rewrite: Feedback/Suggestion/Discussion Megathread

Kinu

P.L.A.Y
Demopan: Remove the visual shit, give him an actual stun instead. He's okay as a standalone boss, his charge makes him different enough from the normal Hale.

Horseman: If this is the same Horseman as in the normal plugin (who climbs and teleports) I see no reason to buff him. He's very powerful in the right hands.

Announcer: Either give her a knife to mainly fight with or don't do anything about her Ambassador. Please do not buff the Amby unless you plan to give it limited ammo.

CBS: Get rid of Bushwacka, RNG has no place in VSH, especially not on cost of the Heavy getting oneshotted.

General concern: Remove flat damage stomp of 999 and make it 10x fall damage again.
 

42

Fixes everything
Senior Dev
Server Moderator
Donator
Developer
Demopan: Adding to that charge idea, but the attack it deals does AoE damage ifdealt with the pan.
Electric modifier kinda already took the idea
Announcer: She is based around summoning, which is tough to balance. Perhaps revert it to the way that it used to work, but summoned players can only use melee weapons (like soldier's zombie scouts)
I like the new minions way of spawning, rather than announcer just mindlessly spamming m2 up to air. Minions right now have backup banner effect to not take any 1 shot crit/minicrit damage, but i can try look into also removing the general 35% resists as i see minions able to survive quite long. Maybe also give announce one mobility or a rage to escape in some situations, but don't want to just splat superjump and call it done.
CBS: Give his arrows a buff as well that works the same as the knife.
Over 50%: arrows explode
Under 50%: arrows cause bleeding
I'd go for the perma arrow explode so you can deal damage while "missed" a shot. Though Red snipers already have it.


Demopan: Remove the visual shit, give him an actual stun instead. He's okay as a standalone boss, his charge makes him different enough from the normal Hale.
i've already made a update to demopan with complete new/different rage (chargin targe)
Horseman: If this is the same Horseman as in the normal plugin (who climbs and teleports) I see no reason to buff him. He's very powerful in the right hands.
Yes, current HHH is fine in balance, but having its rage just another version of Saxton Hale is just plain boring. (Saxton Hale (and HHH) is the only boss who have full size scare rage)
Announcer: Either give her a knife to mainly fight with or don't do anything about her Ambassador. Please do not buff the Amby unless you plan to give it limited ammo.
Can't tell if you've even played/seen the new Announcer in VSH-Rewrite. Announcer (every bosses) already have melee weapon, Diamondback and not Ambassador.
CBS: Get rid of Bushwacka, RNG has no place in VSH, especially not on cost of the Heavy getting oneshotted.
The random melee cycle is not fully random. As every weapons have like a 2-3 cooldown before appearing again, but still slight near random.
Sure this may be unfair for Heavy or any 200+hp class, but how else can i do to Bushwacka to keep stats identical to normal TF2 stats.
General concern: Remove flat damage stomp of 999 and make it 10x fall damage again.
I've been thinking into making fall dmg 250dmg, but 999dmg is really helpful to whipe out 3-4 hits overheal heavy with medic. And if heavy survives a stomp, likely he'll die soon from melee hit.
 

Zane Truesdale

Vodka is the key to victory
Server Moderator
Donator
I like the new minions way of spawning, rather than announcer just mindlessly spamming m2 up to air. Minions right now have backup banner effect to not take any 1 shot crit/minicrit damage, but i can try look into also removing the general 35% resists as i see minions able to survive quite long. Maybe also give announce one mobility or a rage to escape in some situations, but don't want to just splat superjump and call it done.
1. Try reducing banner effect to 15% or 20%, that way they have some survivability without being outright tanky.
2. Maybe holding m2 gives Dead Ringer speed boost while leaving her unable to attack while boosted, along with a slight cooldown so it can't be abused against scouts
I'd go for the perma arrow explode so you can deal damage while "missed" a shot. Though Red snipers already have it.
Don't really see that as a big issue. Perhaps combine the explode and bleed ideas into a Boston Basher effect (Causes bleed on hit, explodes on miss) so he can still cause damage with it while being more rewarding when the shot lands
 

Zane Truesdale

Vodka is the key to victory
Server Moderator
Donator
Just out of curiosity, are there any plans to expand upon the amount of Special Rounds that the VSH coin can trigger?
Forcing everyone to one class during your turn as Hale isn't very fun and can be a downright disadvantage depending on what class they get and what Hale you get.
 

42

Fixes everything
Senior Dev
Server Moderator
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Developer
VSH-Rewrite used to have more than 1 special round kind of thing. Few reasons why i removed it
- Special rounds itself
- Yeti Vs Hale: Just a visual change and can sometimes look really weird on some people. Not that interesting
- Sentry Gun vs Sentry Busters: I find those rounds to be just a waste of time, and out of VSH gameplay style. Similar to DB challenge coin.
- Clash of Bosses: Some have fun with this special round, though it also out of VSH gameplay style, and some bosses can have a problem with red model skin. I could bring this back but an admin only command.
- Double Trouble: We already have duo boss, but for every bosses, and those can still be done from admin command.

- Code itself, it bit of a hard-code when needing to put small bits around the main code everywhere when there all of those different special rounds to put, and adding more special rounds can soon turn into a mess.

If anyone have a solid idea on a few special rounds that not just a cosmetic change, doesn't change too much on VSH gameplay itself, and not turn code into a mess, yell it here.
 

Toast

Insert Obvious Joke
If anyone have a solid idea on a few special rounds that not just a cosmetic change, doesn't change too much on VSH gameplay itself, and not turn code into a mess, yell it here.
  • My idea would be this :
Hale vs Randomizer

So how will this work? Simple :

Special Round : Randomizer
  • Class : Scout
Your Loadout :
  • Weapon Slot 1 (Force a Nature)
  • Weapon Slot 2 (Winger)
  • Meele (Stock Bat)


Now another thing i wanna explain.This is class specific randomizer meaning you become one random class with only weapons unique to that class.
  • Class : Spy
  • [INSERT RANDOM SPY LOADOUT]
 

Toast

Insert Obvious Joke
  • Balance changes suggestion (VSH BOSSES)
  • Saxton Hale
    Boss is well balanced and very strong in the right hands.

  • Christian Brutal Sniper
    Weakest boss in my opinion.I would suggest buffing his spook raidus and making his arrows travel faster.

  • Vagineer
    Boss rage is very strong in my opinion.You can literally finish scouts in less than 0.75 sec by pressing E.Either nerf the sentry's DPS or the make the construction time longer.

  • Painis Cupcake
    Very good boss but his health pool seems to be really low compared to what he can heal + the damage he takes when healing.Either buff his health pool to 875 hp per player or give him an 90% damage resistance + immunity to backstabs and taunt kills.

  • Gliched Robot
    Nerf his spamming ability.Not fun in closed areas.

  • Gentle Spy
    The boss has a lot of flaws.Buff his meele damage from 165 to 185 and his backstab damage to 600% of player healthpool.

  • Horseless Headless Horseman
    Good boss in right hands.His wallclimb ability is a good counter to superjump although sometimes it dosen't work.

  • Announcer
    Boss is weak.She is in one of the three bosses who can't jump but the other two have special abilities to counter that weakness.Either make the boss do higher jumps or make her do low gravity jumps.

  • Blutorch and Redmond
    Nerf the fire spell's damage.

  • Seeman and Seeldier
    Buff seeman's rage raidus and make it that you can pull it faster.
 
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rinzor

Warming up
Donator
ok so me personally as someone who plays a little bit of pyro thinks that maybe, just maybe, the flare gun is inferior to the detonator, scorch shot and thermal thruster, so maybe if it did like more afterburn damage, say 100% (8 damage/tick), and maybe if it dealt more damage on airborne enemies it would be more rewarding oh and also maybe give the axtinguisher like 25 overheal on hit but idk these weapons like never get used from what i see
 

GAIDA BG

pretty tasty
Donator
ideas for the shahanshah
(idea 1)-give it the ability of a grapling hook with m2,this ability can be used only 2-3 times per round and after the uses run out it becomes a weaker shiv without a second jump
(idea 2)-give it the ability to perform a high jump with no wall required but it costs 30 hp and it has a 30 second cooldown
(idea 3)-make it entirely damage based and give it 2x increase in the dmg when under 50% or 25% hp while its attack speed is lowered by the same way and amount its dmg is increased

sorry if some of this ideas are dum
 

Forged Identity

the man who says nyeh
I hate the fact that classes like engineer can get out of the way
the entire point of vsh is dodging hale and damaging him. engie only gets 3 rescue ranger shots before the 4th will kill him so without a health pack I don't really think it's as bad as you say, also I don't really think medic needs a needle jump because the overdose already gives enough of a speed boost to be the "escape plan" of medics arsenal.
 

42

Fixes everything
Senior Dev
Server Moderator
Donator
Developer
ok so me personally as someone who plays a little bit of pyro thinks that maybe, just maybe, the flare gun is inferior to the detonator, scorch shot and thermal thruster, so maybe if it did like more afterburn damage, say 100% (8 damage/tick)
I'm not sure myself if Flare Gun is weak against said weapons, right now weapon is just pure damage (does detonator even get used?).

and maybe if it dealt more damage on airborne enemies it would be more rewarding
Not easy to make this work in a simple way.

give the axtinguisher like 25 overheal on hit
i only think of axtinguisher as a strong weapon when boss kept being on fire (esp Hot modifier), but how strong actually is the weapon.

Maybe give medic needlejump to help him get around?
Big against, Medic's ubercharge is already very strong and helps him easily survive in few places (can even help other players not die).

ideas for the shahanshah
(idea 1)-give it the ability of a grapling hook with m2,this ability can be used only 2-3 times per round and after the uses run out it becomes a weaker shiv without a second jump
(idea 2)-give it the ability to perform a high jump with no wall required but it costs 30 hp and it has a 30 second cooldown
(idea 3)-make it entirely damage based and give it 2x increase in the dmg when under 50% or 25% hp while its attack speed is lowered by the same way and amount its dmg is increased
All ideas could've been done, but i remember your idea about making wallclimb height scales on current health, similar to shahanshah stats. I would've went for that idea because it simple, and fits to TF2 stats
 

Apollo

The bane of Armstrong
Server Moderator
Donator
Multi class: Buff stock pistol to not have falloff since its outclassed by every other secondary for scout and engi?
Give stock shotgun a unique effect per class? soldier has increased pellet damage, heavy has reduced pellet spread, pyro's ignites
The pan has an alert if you hit hale with it similar to the fish/arm

Scout: i cant really think of anything for scout, maybe make the babyface's give a speed buff, but it constantly regresses?
Pocket pistol: more ammo, more firerate, less damage

Soldier: seems balanced enough

pyro: 10% more flame damage, thats about it (not applied to phlog)

demo: also seems fine, if a bit weak at times, buff grenade launchers to minicrit on direct hits?

Heavy: hes fine as is

Medic: also fine

sniper: buff the smg to fire faster or be more accurate?

spy: very solid, only buff needed could be to enforcer with crits while disguised
 

retard

Warming up
Donator
Add crossbow jumping for medic.
I'm serious right now,allow crossbow jumping for medic but 15% less movement speed or 15% less health?