Important Community Feedback: Feedback for Vanilla/Workshop servers

Tohru Adachi

man of speen
Administrator
Continuing on from this announcement: Steam Community :: Group :: The Red Sun Over Paradise (https://steamcommunity.com/groups/redsunoverparadise/announcements/detail/2066530830821069806)

I want your honest thoughts - we have a few 0/32 instances that really never get used. I've played about with a few ideas:

  • Converting them (temporarily or permanently) into vanilla servers (only running core plugins such as chat/ban system, ZERO custom content.)
  • Spinning up new servers (temporarily or permanently) into vanilla and/or workshop map servers (again, core plugins only. ZERO custom content.)
On the side, I've been playing about with a more serious-oriented Instagib setup targeted at the comp community, as Instagib can be a potential in for comp players as it's zero-download, no-bullshit, quake-style mechanical gameplay-oriented.
Again: I want feedback on both the ideas above. Don't let this thread die in a day. Say everything on your mind. I want the best for this goddamn community.

I'll pin this for further reference.
 

Lord Scout

woah
Donator
I love instagib and i'd love a more competitive version of it.
You had me interested in vanilla servers until you said no custom content. I wouldn't be very into just joining the vanilla server with no custom content if i could join the (probably) more populated normal server WITH custom content but thats just my opinion
 

Tohru Adachi

man of speen
Administrator
I love instagib and i'd love a more competitive version of it.
You had me interested in vanilla servers until you said no custom content. I wouldn't be very into just joining the vanilla server with no custom content if i could join the (probably) more populated normal server WITH custom content but thats just my opinion
point of that is just to get a wider audience in, a lot of people arent receptive to custom downloads
 

Lord Scout

woah
Donator
point of that is just to get a wider audience in, a lot of people arent receptive to custom downloads
I mean i guess if we wanted new people but then it might create a divide between the "custom" servers and the "vanilla servers" and could stir shit
 

Handsome Zane

Red Sun's #1 Alcoholic
Server Moderator
Donator
I feel like stripping ALL custom content from a potential vanilla server may be going a little too far.
If we let it keep the smaller stuff like lenny/baby/space coins, chat sounds, saysound replacements, skins, and of course the jukebox; then we can make it work for both vanilla boys and redsun boyz
 

Lord Scout

woah
Donator
I feel like stripping ALL custom content from a potential vanilla server may be going a little too far.
If we let it keep the smaller stuff like lenny/baby/space coins, chat sounds, saysound replacements, skins, and of course the jukebox; then we can make it work for both vanilla boys and redsun boyz
this
 

Sandshark

DELTA
Server Moderator
Donator
I feel like stripping ALL custom content from a potential vanilla server may be going a little too far.
If we let it keep the smaller stuff like lenny/baby/space coins, chat sounds, saysound replacements, skins, and of course the jukebox; then we can make it work for both vanilla boys and redsun boyz
^^^
Point is vanilla game mode but not necessarily vanilla content, especially since there's hardly any kick back against quality community content.
 

λhamudo

genuine master spark
Donator
yes, make a vanilla server
as zane said just keep the smaller stuff, although i don't see it absolutely essential, it makes a person go "this is redsun for sure"
 

GAIDA BG

Blast Core
Donator
yea i can agree for a vanilla server,but it probably has to be on eu,since eu people are generally more patient to wait for players to join
and also is there gonna be a casual esque lvl system to that server just for the funzies.
But on a serious note,i do hope the server has alot of ppl playing on it and not be abandonned and played only for badges like ocelot or like mistral with occasionally gets ppl in it but on a super rare occasions
 
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42

Fixes everything
Senior Dev
Server Moderator
Donator
Developer
Agreeing with others, having absolutely zero redsun content wouldn't make this a redsun server or anything special, redsun chat system, badges, item sounds, skins, taunts etc. You could've find some other server and it would be the same thing.

I could join vanilla server, depends if raiden/armstrong bores me and there 1 or 2 friends in vanilla. But with zero redsun content, i see server as a empty dust wasteland and wouldn't join.
 

Mikusch

Zero-Trick Pony
Administrator
Have a vanilla server with our loadout plugins. That includes skins, coins, saysounds, you name it. The systems to avoid them getting spammed are already in place so I don't see them affecting the gameplay too much. And even if they do, we can always blacklist them later. It is as easy as changing a single value. A server with zero custom content just would not feel like Red Sun.

Both Mistral and Ocelot are ultimately pointless in their current state. It is very rare to ever see those servers go above 10 players. I would vote to convert one of those instances into a Vanilla server before creating an entirely new one.
 

infinite phantasm

rhythm game dork
Comm. Manager
Donator
as i mentioned in the previous post on the other thread, i heavily support having a vanilla/workshop server, be it either as a test run or permanently. casual sucks major ass and i would gladly play a good no-ad vanilla/workshop map-running server over it. seeding rewards that we already have in place could potentially help to get people into the server. replacing mistral or ocelot would be fine as they don't get too much of a player count anyways.

i do agree with the others that blocking all custom content isn't much of a good idea. from what i can tell based on experiences in the gamemode madness servers, coins, skins, etc. are fine and aren't too much of a problem, aside from downloading things. like mikusch said, blacklisting coins and other things shouldn't be much of a problem.
 

Black_Knight

The Jew ₪
Donator
Having a vanilla server with many custom maps that you will never see anymore in casual would surely be interesting.

Keeping only saysounds is what I'd personally do for the vanilla server(to give it a touch of redsun's "magic", but still removing most of the content); I saw that many new players actually found the jukebox rather annoying or unnecessary. Unless you have a menu that pops up when you join the server that asks you if you want jukebox enabled/disabled, I don't think having it would be a good idea(people can't read chat, you can't expect them to actually use snd_restart or earplugs).
 

Handsome Zane

Red Sun's #1 Alcoholic
Server Moderator
Donator
If we're gonna convert a server, convert Mistral since that's the most dead server. Don't get me started on its busted plugin (1500s gas ball recharge).

Ocelot only died because surf BP grinding on low counts was killed off. You can still practice surf maps there.
Implementing a command exclusive to that server that lets you disable the jukebox on your end would solve this. Jukebox songs do wonders when the action of the mode gets intense
 

GAIDA BG

Blast Core
Donator
Having a vanilla server with many custom maps that you will never see anymore in casual would surely be interesting.

Keeping only saysounds is what I'd personally do for the vanilla server(to give it a touch of redsun's "magic", but still removing most of the content); I saw that many new players actually found the jukebox rather annoying or unnecessary. Unless you have a menu that pops up when you join the server that asks you if you want jukebox enabled/disabled, I don't think having it would be a good idea(people can't read chat, you can't expect them to actually use snd_restart or earplugs).
the jb doesnt need to be entirely removed for the vanilla server though
the way i can think of adding in a jb to the vanilla server is to make a vanilla exclusive jb with only contains tf2 music,and whenever a person wants to activate a jb, a small vote appears for people to choose y/n.
But if there is no other choice then jb might have to go.
 

Drandor

Serious shitposting
Donator
Ever since Mystery Map has been full of vanilla maps that seem to feel out of place in the category, I've wanted a vanilla server where I can enjoy these maps while also having Redsun's community + custom content available to personally enhance the experience.
However, as i've seen in the past, a lot of new players can become quite overwhelmed with the sheer amount of custom content the servers have to offer. Normally this isn't a big deal on the regular servers since this is the norm and it appeals to a lot of them, but i'd always see the occasional person ask "how do I turn off the sounds","i hate this music how do i turn it off" etc.
If a players' first experience on Redsun is a vanilla server, just wanting to play regular TF2 because of the current bot issues, but they suddenly start hearing saysounds and (to them) random music along with a chat full of differently coloured names, titles and possibly Lenny faces, it can overwhelm those not used to custom content, giving a poor first impression, especially if the answer to the questions above is something like: "buy earplugs at the shop".
They likely skipped the Redsun site within the first screen by mindlessly hitting continue the second they loaded into the server, there's a shop? How do I access it? What's BP? How do I get BP? How do I make a loadout account? And so on. They just wanted to play vanilla TF2 without bots but potentially get side-tracked by all this stuff they really don't care about because all the different sounds annoyed them.
This won't be the case for every new player, but I believe easing people into custom content and community servers in general by giving them the ability to enable and disable different custom text/sounds from the moment they enter the server would go a long way in helping new players integrate into the community.

Instead of earplugs, a /settings menu would be much quicker for players to access, and would contain the different sections of custom content to enable/disable, looking something like this:
  1. Jukebox (Enabled)
  2. Custom Sounds (Enabled)(Voice menu alterations like Idiotizer + Stupidifier)
  3. Saysounds (Enabled)
  4. Chat Effects (Enabled)(Name paints, titles, lennies etc., Staff icons would obviously stay)
  5. Tips/Popups (Enabled)
A quick pop-up notifying a new player of this menu allows them to quickly decide what they'll want to see/hear, meaning if they want the vanilla experience they can disable everything and get to playing the game within seconds, and perhaps if they like the server and continue to return they might become interested in what the custom content adds to the experience.

As for other coins, anything that effects gameplay like Space coins should be disabled on these servers to ensure the most vanilla gameplay experience possible.
 

Zati

S.E.E.S Operative
Donator
As someone who plays casual but loves to be on redsun, I 100% agree with Zane about how to make a vanilla server, plus it would be pretty sweet to play actual normal games with some of the redsun peeps.
 

Muthix

Tail on!
Donator
Just a thought to add, but if a vanilla server is added i would assme there would be a thread on the forms for people to suggest workshop maps to add into the rotation?